Is The Top Talent Really From The Bottom?

This blog was written for Canespace by blogger 321Cane...

On the street and among many of the talented athletes in the Sunshine State South Florida is known as "The Bottom". 

Football players that hail from the muck of the 561 (Palm Beach County) to the beaches of the 954 (Broward County) to the mean streets of the 305 (Miami-Dade County) are recruited by and play for every major D-1 college football program in the Country.

 
Let's look at one quick example.  You may have heard about 2010 Heisman candidate QB Denard Robinson who has almost all by himself suddenly resurrected the Michigan Wolverines program?  

You might want to know that he's from Deerfield Beach in Broward County.

While the 561 and the 954 can certainly boast about their talent, it is the 305 that has a reputation of producing the best football players and athletes in the entire State of Florida.  You often hear people say: "That recruit has the 305 swagger.”  And many times they do and go on to prove it on the field.

 
But in actuality you could argue that players all around the State have as much talent and just as much swag as the balling boys from Miami. The University of Miami is known for catering to the local kids, and at times even claimed to have even have built a wall around South Florida dating back to the early 80's and Howard Schellenberger.

All of that is fine as long as the players are dominating on the football field while wearing "The U" on their helmet.  In my opinion, that’s simply not the case anymore and I think that is a reflection that the times have changed. 

Many players, some really good players, can be found all across Florida, and not just in The Bottom. 

 
I'll go as far as to say that you can't convince me that the local talent currently at UM is the same local talent with the same heart, soul and determination as the legendary players the Miami Hurricanes had in the championship years of 1983-1991, and of course the dominant years of 2000-2003, can you?  

Can you prove to me that they are better than players from other places around the State?  For example a couple of years ago Sanford Seminole High School had a three man army of QB/S Ray Ray Armstrong, DE/TE Dyron Dye and WR Andre Debose.  They even managed to knock off eight D-1 recruits from Miami NWHS at the time.  That's some talent right there.

In 2009 5A Manatee HS beat perennial powerhouse St. Thomas Aquinas who according to everyone apparently had a larger number of talented players when compared to Manatee.

In 2009 Cocoa High destroyed Belle Glade in the class 2A.  This year Cocoa has beaten three powerhouse teams across America that were above their class this year. With back-2-back State championships the Cocoa program still feels like they are not getting any attention they respectively deserve. 

The fact is that the Hurricanes have some 4 and 5 star recruits that came from the Miami area that won a lot of games in "The Bottom" and even won some State Championships that are not producing on the field. Some are not even seeing the field because of a lack of talent, technique or mechanics and they are already into their Junior season.

 
Miami has left a lot of kids hanging from different areas from Florida that are currently playing at a high level right now in college.  Recruits from different areas of Florida may feel that the University of Miami only cares about the local kids.  Some of these players are dreaming of an offer from The U and at times other college coaches are using that against UM in the recruiting game.

So with all this said, I have five questions that need to be answered:

1. Is Miami talent overrated?

2. If not are they coachable?

3. Is it the high school football being played or coaching down there?

4. If not, is it our coaching staff fault for not developing players?

5. Or is it all of the above?

Somebody please tell me because I've been pondering this for a while!

Maybe what I’m just trying to say is: "WHATS GOING ON?" 

Comments

[solarcane]

boink

[solarcane]

1. Is Miami talent overrated?

Ask the kids that went to high school in Alabama, Ohio, Idaho, Texas, they probably could tell you.

[SOUP]

REPOST FROM THE LAST:

Hi Solar,

I'm sorry, you were right. I was wrong. I still don't like stats 3 or 4 games in with unequal competition.

And Canez1 is right. I told him privately, but wanted to make it public as well.

Posted by: 411 | October 13, 2010 at 02:29 PM

That right there my friends is a REAL man.

Way to handle your bidness 411.

R E S P E C T

EDITORIAL NOTE: FOR ALL OF U WHO MISSED IT THIS IS THE WAY WE DO IT ON CANESPACE.

[Sebastian]

1.It can be a curse for every single athlete when getting that label
2.I believe they are coachable kids
3. The competition for the most part is pretty solid
4.Someones not giving then a to do list of things they need to improve on if they either expect to play a major role on this team or play at the next level. Maybe even pull a guy like Spence, Hank,Bailey or Berry and give them someone to help prepare for the upcoming season

[SOUP]

The Wisconsin game last season the FSU game is indicative of the U not showing up and I haven't even mentioned the VT game of last season and the GT game two seasons ago.
-------------------

I was at each one in person (and UNC and VA in the OB)... It's not the losses that bother me, as much as watching a team being pulverized and not fighting back. I'm not a tough guy, but if someone punches me I will punch back (might get my ass kicked) but I will fight for my pride. These kids at the above mentioned BIG games have folded and shown very little fight. Very little heart. It bothers me. A loss or two this year was expected, driving hour$ to watch these kids lay down was not.

Posted by: 411 | October 13, 2010 at 09:20 PM

Canespace rules are:

1. Go to the games.

2. Stay 'til the end.

3. Good things will happen.

Usually they do, but sometimes they don't.

So what's next? Then U re-group, re-focus and go to the NEXT game.

411...We have met a few times. U are a real Canes fan and a real gentlemen. I have MAD respect for U!

NOW please listen to me for just one time:

1. Drive NORTH to Cleveland GA.

2. Stay at Solar's house with your wifey.

3. Go kayaking and fishing with Solar for a day while your wife and Mrs. Solar got to Helen, GA to shop and eat.

U WILL NOT REGRET IT! IT MAY JUST BE THE BEST TIME OF YOUR LIFE...

[Sebastian]

Sebastian57 Lamar practice today but in pain...We will be ok with Berry,Coop,James and even Storm or Eduardo...But after the Duke game you have to make a decision on who will redshirt...

Posted by: Montreal-Cane | October 13, 2010 at 09:19 PM

Berry=RB starter
James=Mr.Everything
LM6= What the `Canes have been missing for a very long time, needs to see the field more
Coop=no redshirt, use him when the right situation calls for him
Storm=Give him more carries as the games go by and use him more on KO returns
Eduardo=RS

[mi@mic@ne]

http://www.break.com/index/fat-girl-faceplants-off-a-mechanical-bull.html

This is what happens when you play soft and look out of shape... LMAO

[solarcane]

Mi@mi,
that was just wrong....
LMAO!!

[Montreal-Cane]

The day the swagger and leadership died at the U...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/10656802/

Time for a rebirth!!!

[solarcane]

Be on time, pay attention and play like hell when I tell you to," Madden said. "Nothing else mattered. I always knew that the more rules you have, the easier they are to break. Things that aren't important, that have nothing to do with winning or losing, don't have to be a rule."

J Madden

[Playa..The Blogger Formerly Known as Rashad]

Canes 31 Duke 13.

[SOUP]

321...thanks for the assist. Nice work there bruddah!

[AlpharettaCane]

Our head coach does his best to remove any extraverted and boisterous behavior from these kids the second they get on campus and then he sits around hoping that they become leaders? No coach, you do your absolute best to KILL any leadership qualities these kids are borne with.......

........and at the end of the day they all end up looking just like you. Lost. Emotionless. Indifferent. Overwhelmed. Confused.

Please resign and take Shalala with you so that Miami supporters can start to get back our beloved program. This show is over. It isn't going to miraculously get better at Miami under Randy Shannon.

Posted by: | October 13, 2010 at 06:51 AM

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2010/10/alumni-where-is-the-leadership-at-the-u.html#ixzz12IRIUUvi

[SOUP]

FROM MANNY AT THE MIAMI HERALD:

Aside from leadership, player development has become another growing concern. Bratton, who went to Miami Northwestern, said he's surprised some of the Hurricanes signed from the Bulls' mythical national championship team of 2007 still haven't been able to get on the field.

"Look at Sam Shields starting [for the Green Bay Packers]. Look at Bruce Johnson. Randy Phillips. Tavares Gooden. These kids didn't get drafted," Bratton said. "Let's be real. This is the NFL. There are only 53 people that can be on a roster. These kids at the University of Miami were part time starters, didn't make any All-American lists. But they can go to the league and dominate? Something is wrong. I don't know if it's coaching or if its scheme. But how can you go to the next level and start on opening day? Somebody isn't getting the best out of these kids.

"You want to have chemistry and allow the players on the field to be who they are. The Ray Ray Armstrongs of the world, when he came in there, the reason he wanted to go to Miami was because he fit the Miami mentality, Sean Taylor-type mentality, knock the [expletive] out of you. You can't pigeon hole those kids. You got to let them go.

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2010/10/alumni-where-is-the-leadership-at-the-u.html#ixzz12IWK6qyF

[321CANES]

Posted by: SOUP | October 13, 2010 at 10:28 PM
THANK YOU!!! This is something that needs to be address IMO!

Way tooo many kids in the state of Florida that are not getting noticed by UM coaches and there absolutely balling at other Universities!

Did you know that D-line men Taye Cody wanted to be a Cane?
Did you know that Chris Johnson Pro bowler RB for the Titans favorite team was... you guess it the Canes!
Do you know that Trent Richardson was over looked by our coaching staff had a verbal offer?? R U KIDDING ME???
Ever heard of Xavier XMAN Carter??? Well Miami got on this speedster late during his high school career and he still gave Us an official visit ended up being LSU.

Jeff Demps-Ufag Byatch! Didn't even get an offer?

C.J. spiller pUNK @$$ -Should of been number 1 recruit in my eyes in 2006!
iM JUST SAYIN???

[SOUP]

321...I hear U!

Listen I do NOT follow recruiting like others do. I wanna know the guys on my team and what they are doing, that's about all I can take.

But when U bring up good points like this then IMHO we ALL have to pay attention.

[321CANES]

For example LOL im not going to say any names but you have a LB thats 10 min away from the University of Miami and has a offer and is not ready to announce. He wants to see what Miami has more to offer??? LOL Like really 10 min away?

[solarcane]

an agent spills his guts on being a parasite

from next weeks SI

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/magazine/10/12/agent/index.html

[321CANES]

Posted by: SOUP | October 13, 2010 at 11:08 PM
Cool soup... This is something that needs to be address like STATE OF EMERGENCY type ish, LOL theres a problem when you have a lot of top Miami kids thats on 1 team and they're not producing or putting up BIG TIME #s on the field. I just don't understand because in high school they did. I would love to see it @ UM. Goes to show you that times has change,I don't care where ya from I just want to win!!!-In my Al Davis voice. LOL

[Drtycane]

http://www.wqam.com/index.php?page=727

its from this a.m. herbstreit making sense of all of the BS....and he and Melvin Bratton are correct. We need leadership on this team on both sides of the ball...

@411.... I was saying the same thing...its how we lose, not necessary the loss itself. if we look like chochas and lay down...then its a huge blow to EVERYTHING..!!!

[on to the next one]

"I got a million ways to get it, choose one!"

Smash Randy Shannon and that hideous coaching staff now!!!!!

[Montreal-Cane]

Somebody isn't getting the best out of these kids.

[TonyCane]

Saw someone mention "The Pattern" in regards to Randy Shannon. Perhaps, but let's compare him to Butch Davis. Not starting in 1995, but in the bottom of the NCAA sanctions 1997. That's roughly equivalent to the talent situation that Miami faced in 2007.

Davis:
1997: W-L-L-L-L-W-W-W-L-W-L
1998: W-W-L-W-L-W-W-W-W-L-W-W
1999: W-W-L-L-L-W-W-W-L-W-W-W-W
2000: W-L-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W

Shannon:
2007: W-L-W-W-W-L-L-W-L-L-L-L
2008: W-L-W-L-L-W-W-W-W-W-L-L-L
2009: W-W-L-W-W-W-L-W-W-L-W-W-L
2010: W-L-W-W-L

Or, after five games during this time period:

Davis
1997: 1-4
1998: 3-2
1999: 2-3
2000: 4-1

Shannon
2007: 4-1
2008: 2-3
2009: 4-1
2010: 3-2

Finally, points scored and allowed:

1997: 91...133
1998: 191..99
1999: 147..100
2000: 228..88

2007: 125..94
2008: 159..125
2009: 147..118
2010: 148..104

[TonyCane]

Or for the heck of it, let's compare Shannon to Mack Brown of Texas. The Longhorns were beaten by arch-rivals OU for five consecutive years, twice with the Sooners scoring 60 points. The wailing about Mack's coaching staff was just as bad in Texas as it is in Miami. Keep in mind, the Longhorns biggest out of conference opponent during this time frame was Arkansas and they traditionally feast in the early portion of their schedule on such "powers" as Sam Houston State and Rice.

Mack Brown
1998: 3-2
1999: 4-1
2000: 4-1
2001: 4-1

Points For, Points Allowed:
1998: 217..187
1999: 207..74
2000: 180..107
2001: 183..68

[TonyCane]

The point is, there are some similarities between Mack Brown and Shannon. Both had highly rated recruiting classes early on. Brown hitched his wagon to Chris Simms during the early part of his tenure when many fans thought that Major Applewhite was the better QB. Although their schedule was much, much weaker and the Longhorns had a better overall record and more points scored, Mack's record against Top 25 schools was abysmal until 2004. As bad as the loss to FSU was, imagine losing to the Seminoles by scores of 14-63 and 13-65 in two out of four years? Texas was considered a soft team and Mack a good recruiter, but a bad coach.

What changed? Two things. Mack ushered out his defensive coordinator and brought in Greg Williams, who turned a soft defense around. And secondly, a superlative player named Vince Young arrived. Now we can't expect Randy to bring in the next Terrell Pryor/Vince Young/Michael Vick to mask our offensive issues (those players come around only once every five years or so), but there can be improvements made in coaching (either the current staff or replacements) that can pay quick dividends next year.

As bad as things seem, let's see how they play out over the next month.

[zarokon]

after reading all those comparisons i will give Randy a year to finsih what he started. i just donnt like the fact that MIAMI was stomped by FSU at home. +7 favorites get beat by 28...at home!! no leadership. why isnt the former alumni allowed to be on the sidelines..come back and help, coach?? just...idk. 10 and 2 i will stand by that. hard with a QB that is playing hurt and a OLB playing MLB...and this is killing recruiting. also...FSU is killing us in recruiting. With only 15 scholarships Miami has to be selective. but damn...we needed that win. come on Canes. STOMP DUKE.....

[The Dude]

At some point, this is The U. Shut up and win alot of games al the time. The talent in South Florida is the best for skill positions. Its where the speed comes from. Problem Miami coaches have done a really bad job developing it. 2007 was not as bad as alot made it out to be. There was plenty of talent on that team. Once again it wasnt developed. Kyle Wright was the #1 QB in America coming out of high school. When he graduated he was only mildly better than when he arrived. Some of that was his fault, but mostly it was Larry Coker. Tyrone Moss had all kinds of talent but had no discipline. Don Soldinger called him fat, but Larry didnt want to hear it. Lance Leggett had crazy skills too. None of them left The U better than they came in.

[The Dude]

It doesnt look like we have to worry too much about how good the "bottom" talent is anyways... we wont be getting any of it, lol. Bring back QBU!

[NativeCane]

MH- Former players call State of Emergency

``I'm not saying these kids are soft,'' Bratton said. ``But somebody needs to step up on offense and defense and be a leader. I don't see that on the sideline. You watch the game and keep waiting for somebody on the defensive side to go to the offensive side of the ball and say `What the hell are you all doing?' Jerome Brown and those guys, when we screwed up, [they] would go check on [Vinny] Testaverde, myself, [Alonzo] Highsmith. These guys don't hold each other accountable.''

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/14/1872483/program-in-a-state-of-emergency.html?pageNum=3&&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container#ixzz12KMdt3dB

Manny

Some comments from Spencer Whipple, a junior, after Wednesday's practice: "Nothing has really changed for me. I've just been preparing the same way all year. That's the way I like to prepare, to be ready for anything that happens, whether you're sixth on the depth chart or 1 or 2. You always have got to prepare the same way, watch the same amount of film, take notes in meetings and be ready whenever your number is called.''

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2010/10/s-whipple-backup-qb-for-duke.html#ixzz12KNWFIm4

[NativeCane]

SS- He's aight.. just a nick.

Coach Randy Shannon confirmed Highsmith has an injured left hand/wrist. Highsmith, who wore a brace on his wrist, was on the field for practice Wednesday, but the sophomore didn't take any snaps under center and did nothing "as far as contact."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/um-hurricanes/fl-miami-football-news-1014-20101013,0,1610616.story

Steve

Expect to see true freshman LB Kelvin Cain on the field more for the ‘Canes Saturday at Duke.

Shannon said true freshman WR Allen Hurns might be one of those young players who starts to get a bigger role.

Shannon has been pleased with the play of JoJo Nicolas, who has started at SS two of the past three games ahead of Ray Ray Armstrong.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_college_hurricanes/2010/10/news-and-notes-from-wednesday.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2Fumweblog+%28UM+Hurricanes+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29

[NativeCane]

PBP

The four-game stretch just navigated, for example - at Ohio State, at Pittsburgh, at Clemson, Florida State - once upon a time was viewed as potentially ruinous for the 'Canes. Instead they split those tests to stand at 3-2 overall and 1-1 in the ACC. Hardly a wreckage scene. And Miami's next six games are against conference opponents (all but one from within the Coastal Divison). There's still plenty of opportunity, in other words, for the Hurricanes to work their way into the ACC Championship Game.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/hurricanes/commentary-miami-hurricanes-fans-may-call-for-randy-970528.html

Jorge- Duke coach David Cutcliffe

CUTCLIFFE: They’re — the last thing you just said is the key. We all get mad when we get beat. But when you have a team as talented as Miami, then they tend to have a chance to do something about it.

They will be highly motivated. You know, it affects their season. It affects everything about what they’re doing and they’re very capable, very capable. And I can promise you that that score is not indicative of those two teams and their matchup.

My hat’s off to Florida State. What a tremendous job they did. But they’re not that much better at all than Miami, if at all.

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/caneswatch/2010/10/13/dukes-david-cutcliffe-on-jacory-harris-peyton-mannings-happy-feet-and-facing-unhappy-canes/

[USAFCane]

What a beat down Saturday was, is it Saturday yet? Time to win a game again. 1 game at a time from here on out.

[Kehoe]

“I didn’t understand what Joe was saying. My fault. I apologized and stuff like that. The biggest goal is to beat Duke. The ultimate goal is to win the ACC championship. I thought Joe asked me something totally different. The question came out of the woodwork.”

UNBELIEVABLE

What happened to Copper Girl anyway?

The writing over at AllCanes.com utterly SMOKES what is written here.

[Kehoe]

Everybody has an opinion on how to use the UM RB's in a way that will show how great they should be/will be/are.

Until there is some legitimate depth on the oline, the running game will continue to be what it is....67th nationally. That is not an anomaly. It's an improvement from last years 75th ranked running game...or is it? Pat Riley's "you are what you're record says you are" quote applies here.

Here is the NCAA official football statistics page. It's a required bookmark for any college football fan.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp

Word to the wise, it aint pretty.

[the "U" is America's team]

Well ill be damned I said right after the ohio state game that jh had happy feet. I said the same thing exactly right after that game, and on this blog also.

[Sebastian]

On No!!

The kehoe troll has found his way over to the `Space?

For someone who claims to hate all things Miami you sure do alot of research about them

You should use your time more wisely and put another cement block under your trailer to level it out

Looks like threatening to kill a woman isnt part of those so called core values

[SOUP]

The writing over at AllCanes.com utterly SMOKES what is written here.

Posted by: Kehoe | October 14, 2010 at 07:38 AM

Then over there U should go.

And stay there while U are at it.

[BahamaCane]

2 days until the Canedom gets back on track!

[SOUP]

2 days until the Canedom gets back on track!

Posted by: BahamaCane | October 14, 2010 at 08:56 AM

That's the spirit!

GO CANES, BEAT DUKE!!!

[Kehoe]

"For someone who claims to hate all things Miami you sure do alot of research about them"

Claims to hate all things Miami?? Laughable. I went to my first canes game in 1979.

I wouldn't call two mouse clicks "research."

But you will admit that that NCAA site is the bomb. I know you bookmarked it an I didn't even get a thanks.

[Sebastian]

I dont click on anything unless its from one of the names I know on here

Like im going to open a link sent from a troll

Yeah right

[Kehoe]

Suit yourself but that website is the one for all end all with regards to NCAA stats. It's THEIR website.

Just google NCAA stats football and its the top hit.

I wonder how many people the NCAA employs just to maintain that site. It has endless links. Enjoy.

[BahamaCane]

Soup, we rarely see RS take disciplinary action during the game when players make a mistake.

You can have great and awesome practices, but when game time starts, and guys are making bone headed mistakes, there isnt any consequences during the game. There needs to be.

The point has to be made that certain types of plays are not tolerated.

If concentration is a problem, well, if you dont and you drop a pass, it will cost you, you sit out the next play.

You cant tackle and wrap up, well if you dont, it will cost you. Your out the next play.

You cause a stupid penalty, you sit out the next play.

You want to throw pics, throw them, but your out the NEXT SERIES!

This is another aspect of coaching i have yet to see RS embrace: sending a message during a game. Is he afraid to publicly send a message?

He starts yanking starters when they have a brain fart, eventually the entire team figures out that you make a mistake, its your funeral.

[solarcane]

I wonder how many people the NCAA employs just to maintain that site. It has endless links. Enjoy.
Posted by: Kehoe | October 14, 2010 at 09:33 AM

This guy "discovers" the site Six and I have brought you guys information from for going on four years straight. lol!

Can't wait till he figures out how to find the link I use for the archived history of every NCAA game played back until 1926

[pbcfrcane13]

Hey Bama who do you want RS to replace these guys with?

Take out Colin and put in who? A freshman who hasn't played yet because our schedule has not allowed us to?

[pbcfrcane13]

I'd rather not

[solarcane]

bahama,
I argue with Captain O every day about the fact Randy is a terrible game day coach.
If you watch Randy the entire game live, there isn't a reason in the world he is on the sideline.

Watch coach Harbaugh grab a guy by the pads and talk him up, settle him down.
watch him run over the officials and point out the other team holding.

I don't see Randy do anything during games except look like he is about to pass gas.

[pbcfrcane13]

Solar who cares WHAT A COACH LOOKS LIKE ON THE SIDELINES!!!!! OMG Go listen to all the former interviews from former players!!! They all say the say that coach screaming and yelling is so dumb!!

Harbaugh is better because he has a better QB!! plain and simple. WOW

[pbcfrcane13]

Sorry didn't mean to scream lol just so tired of hearing about what he looks like on the sidelines I think thats so dumb!

[solarcane]

Harbaugh is better because he has a better QB!! plain and simple. WOW

Posted by: pbcfrcane13 | October 14, 2010 at 09:59 AM

If I didn't think you were just kidding me I'd think you just started watching college football this week, I ain't falling for it. lol