« Let The Games Begin! | Main | Disgraceful, Shameful, Disgusting, Criminal »

July 11, 2012

Comments

herbieibis

I'll tell you what's amazing, USC has 14 recruits and all are 4 star or above and all but one is ranked in the top 20 at their positions in the nation. The lone exception is ranked 23RD. They still have 1 year left of reduced schollies and these dudes are still raking in these supposed high caliber players.

Ohio_Cane

Papa Cane - Recruiting Update: Miami has offered 2013 RB Chris Carson, 6'1'' and 190 lbs, out of Parkview HS in GA. His HS coach is reporting the offer.

Ohio_Cane

Ohio,

Is the NCAA 13 better than last year? And didn't we have at least a A for pro potential last year?

Posted by: Willie Will in Nashville | July 13, 2012 at 09:54 AM
------------------------------------------

I don't know yet. I did a little recruiting and played 1 game last night. Don't wanna make that judgement yet.

Yes, we were at least an A last year.

pre83

You have to ask yourself why USC did what they did back in the Reggie Bush era.

Just based on Herbie's posts, it appears as though their recruiting is now at the same level as back then.

To me it begs the question - Why did they have to go about their business in an underhanded manner when, assuming Lane is now operating on the up and up, that it wasn't necessary at all to achieve the same results?

It lost its NC's & Heisman awarded to Bush. Hope it was worth it.

I must say that I could give a $h!t about potential and feeling the need to crown them for something when they haven't done a thing yet. We will see in 3-4 years. Before that, those who care can have all the pats on the back they feel they need for such an "accomplishment".

LB

Stargazing is useless. Ask Notre Dame. When I asked 4-Real why he was obsessed with stars, his response was the question what I had "against them". I gave a fair analysis, from Boise State, USC, FSU, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, and UM.

I asked 4-Real again for a response. My question was ignored, though I answered his question completely.

I can only assume that it means that I'm correct. There is no parallel between stars and titles. None. There is no parallel to designate that lauded talent from Friday nights will translate to productivity to Saturdays. None. I have given examples from different conferences, budgets, teams, and years. It is absolute fiction.

USC can have all the 4-stars in the world, and suckers can worship all the unproven high schoolers they wish...

...but unless they've got good coaching, a good fit within the system, proper development, a solid brain, and drive...

...the stars die.

Ask Latwan Anderson.

4-Real

It was definately worth it pre83 cuz they are still benefiting from the hype & hysteria they caused from the Bush era. If I'm not mistaken only 1 of the championship committees ( Ap & Bcs ) stripped USC of THEIR version of the title. But look at this way, we are about 2 get HIT & AIN'T WON S**T.!!

4-Real

NO NEED 2 HATE ON EVERYONE ELSE CUZ WE SUKK!!!

3G Cane

NO NEED 2 HATE ON EVERYONE ELSE CUZ WE SUKK!!!

Posted by: 4-Real
-----------
No one is hating, we're just not on everyone else's jock like you are.

Canezitis

I live out here in SoCal now and I can tell you that if you are a great high school player you are kinda expected to go to USC the same as you'd be expected to go to 'bama if lived in 'bama. And to be honest why wouldn't you? What's not like? Women are hot as hell(yet I hear they're hotter at ucla), beach is not far away,great pipeline to nfl, and your always in the mix for at least a PAC 12 championship. Don't hate on these kids,you'd do the same if given the opportunity. Now don't get me wrong I can't stand them and their spoiled arses(university of spoiled children:), but I get it when I'm not look through my orange and green glasses.

Canezitis

4real, are you a cane fan? If so who cares what these other guys are doing.look at Boise st, tex christian, ok st.- all examples of excellent coaches getting players To fit in their system and consistently win regardless of stars. Would every coach love to have team full of 4amd 5 star players? Of course. But you have be great coach to even get those players to play as a team and that's partly why 5 stars came to die in the Coker/ Onion eras. They either picked the overhyped ones or couldn't coach them to their full potential or play as a team player. I truly believe all that will change with Al. Look at chick,perryman, and I guarantee you Johnson and Howard will get IT and ball out here. Lane kiffen needs all the talent he can get- not a believer in him as a great coach.

Brevardcane

There is a great book out that basically speaks to this star debate but in terms of success in general. Check out "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell

The What

The ironic part of the whole thing was it seemed from his actions and last letter released by his family that joe paterno cared so much about the football program he didn't want even the slightest dirt on it. (by saying this was not a football matter in his letter he was trying to protect PSU from NCAA sanctions).
Had paterno turned Sandusky in, he would be known as a hero and PSU would be a shining beacon of how to do things the right way in athletics and in general. Oh how the decisions we make today can come back to haunt us tomorrow.

Usagainsttheworld


There is a great book out that basically speaks to this star debate but in terms of success in general. Check out "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell

Posted by: Brevardcane | July 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Very good book.

Ohio_Cane

Papa Cane - Local Talent Flash The U: LB Jermaine Grace & DB Artie Burns show some love during Nike's The Opening. http://ow.ly/cdR6q

Ohio_Cane

Papa Cane:

Nike's The Opening - 40 Times Laser Timed: WR Kermit Whitfield 4.37; OL Denver Kirkland 5.63; DE Jordan Sherit 4.56; LB Matthew Thomas 4.59; LB Jermaine Grace 4.57; DB Will Likely 4.59; DB/S Artie Burns 4.50; DB Vernon Hargreaves 4.42.

All of the listed names are UM targets. Those 40 times are very impressive, and show at least from a speed standpoint the abilty/potential.

86Cane

But back to this class: It is shaping up to be the strongest cornerback class since the inception of the ESPN 150 in 2006. We add a third five-star CB as Eli Woodard (Voorhees, N.J./Eastern) joins Vernon Hargreaves III (Tampa, Fla./Wharton) and Mackensie Alexander (Immokalee, Fla./Immokalee) in that select group. The 150 features five cornerbacks in the top 20.

The What

USC should always have great recruitin classes. Just like Miami should always have great recruiting classes. Only difference between the two, USCs success has been more recent. Otherwise they have done nothing sanctions or not for the last few years. When Miami starts winning and they will, we will see who is eating their words.

Six

herbieibis - some of us called it when it first came down on USC, when others said it was going to really hurt (almost decimate) their football program with the sanctions & reduced schoolies

.. no way it was going to stop that machine that Pete C got up and running out there from still bringing in recruits

They'll still get stud recruits

Why? Again, same thing that we said when the sanctions first came down ... Think about the guy that is out there in Kiffin - might not be a great X&O guy, but can pull in recruits and let his assistants do their thing

Now, think about his dad with his Super Bowl ring, being the leader of one of the best defenses in NFL history the year they won it .. and when you're around Monte, he gets you hyped up, no matter what your age

Ed Orgeron. Enough said right there with that name

On top of just being able to play for USC, in some instances right away as soon as they step on campus, they'll sell the "us against the world, prove them wrong" line - even if they can't win it all, they can still go undefeated like T.Bowden did at Auburn and use the line of "you're lucky you didn't play us, bla bla, if we weren't on sanctions, bla bla"

Arguably the best local kid here in Tampa, a 5* top of his classification at WR and in some cases the #1 rated athlete depending on the recruiting service - Nelson Agholor - went all the way out to USC. Said he loved the coaches, the feel of the university, the tradition, the females on campus ... even with the sanctions



The What

I find it funny that star lovers are never stroking themselves over the players that commit to Boise St or TCU when both have had more success and been more competent than USC or many other high profile programs over the past few years. Is it because you wouldn't know talent if it hit you in your a#%. You base your excitement off of a star system that you probably couldn't explain how those stars are earned. Fact is all these recruiting sites have two bit evaluators that give guys like latwan, Bryce brown etc 4 and 5 stars. The water boy had more of an impact than those guys did. I guess the water boy should get 5 stars as well.

Six

Death Penalty to Penn State

Allow the current kids to be able to transfer without having to sit a year

Imagine Canes fans if a bomb like what happened at Pedo State happened at Miami?

Mass suicide

Bad enough with the sky is falling Canes fans now about the boats-n-hoes ponzi schemer Yahoo article. The players were just doing what men pay for and try to do at the end of the week/weekends at bars/clubs with the VIP rooms, females, nice dinners, etc. ... hilarious that jackholes like Mark May & others even brought up "death penalty" when mentioning Miami

They need to napalm that entire campus, then place everyone even remotely close to this sick scandal in general population in nothing but heels/lipstick/thong/handcuffs for 60 years with no chance of parole or being placed in protective cells


Six

The What - just putting this out there b/c I don't care either way, give me a 2* kid with a 5* chip on his shoulder work ethic/football IQ .. or give me a 5* kid that is actually worth his projection

But, were you happy when the Canes landed 4* Chick, 5* Tracy Howard, 4* Deon Bush, 4* Ereck Flowers, 5* Duke Johnson, 4* Malcolm Lewis, 4* Tyriq McCord, etc.

or would you have liked to have 5* Sammy Watkins as well?

Good coaching at Boise and TCU. There was a stretch of years this past decade where the overwhelming majority of their players were in the 2 to 3* range with a couple of 4 or maybe even a 5 luckily sprinkled in there ... but generally in the 2 to 3* range for their players

4-Real

EITHER YOU'RE HATER, OR A CONGRAGULATOR, THERE IS NO N BETWEEN.

The What

I see your point though six and agree with you 100%

Honestly I was excited cause there was a consensus among everyone so yep I got excited. And of course I get excited if I hear some big time 5* picks Miami over everyone else. I think its human nature when a guy so highly touted picks miami to get excited. I just have a problem when miami fans criticize the coaching staff for not offering or getting this guy or that guy and making it seem like all these other programs are excelling while ours is still in the hands of incompetent coaches.
I know nothing of recruiting. I will just put my faith in the coaches that they are getting the right and best players for the team. Until they give me reason to doubt I will withhold criticism.

I see your point though six and agree with you 100%

herbieibis

The What,
The Herb says this, what you been smoking. Biose State & TCU play maybe 2 tough games a year. They do have good coaching, which is a very Big plus but to compare them to top programs, Nah! For every 5* flop, 5 will succeed, it just so happens we've had the 5* star curse, the last several years. I'll take my chances with a 5* over a 2 or 3 any day but that being said, you have to have some of those type players, that are hungry to prove they belong and will play with a chip on there shoulder. When a majority of your roster is 4 and 5 stars Like USC, you'd better be able to play or they will cut you loose. They've had several x 5* guys transfer the last couple of years and they still don't miss beat. They won't win the ship every year but they will still be very good. Golden's the man and I'm game to give him another recruiting cycle to really see how good he is.

roachcane77

I know nothing of recruiting. I will just put my faith in the coaches that they are getting the right and best players for the team. Until they give me reason to doubt I will withhold criticism.
Posted by: The What | July 13, 2012 at 01:27 PM

Golden's the man and I'm game to give him another recruiting cycle to really see how good he is.
Posted by: herbieibis | July 13, 2012 at 01:43 PM

I agree with THESE parts of both arguments... LOL

roachcane77

It would sure help to have these d@mn sanctions imposed already... It's tough recruiting not knowing...

The What

Herb you make very valid points and I can see where you are coming from. And I can agree with you.

Can't reveal what I'm smokin though lol

Ohio_Cane

BREAKING - Drew Brees & Saints reach agreement on 5 yr $100M deal, including $40M in year 1; $60M guaranteed 1st 3 yrs

Ohio_Cane

Gabe Terry - I picked the best school I LOVE MY TEAM!!!!!! WE GETTIN MONEY!!!!!!! (on the field i dont need any assumptions) #Cane Swagg

Lol at "on the field". Crazy how things have changed where that needs said...

orange 'n green in the vein

"Had paterno turned Sandusky in, he would be known as a hero and PSU would be a shining beacon of how to do things the right way in athletics and in general.

Posted by: The What | July 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM"

You mean just like Mr. Conservative wouldn't shut up about for his entire coaching career until the very end? Imagine that! I have a hard time believing Miami, or almost any other school, outside of Notre Dame or maybe Michigan, would cover up their football program like PSU did if a situation like this presented itself there, they'd take their NCAA sanctions, if any were unlikely to be handed out after they went to the police at the first report of criminal activity, and rebuild again.

But when you've got five decades of institutionalized sweat equity invested in making everybody think you're the ethical example of collegiate sports done right at the big time, of course you breed a culture where that will never be allowed to be assailed no matter the nature of the crimes required to be concealed to maintain your facade.

I think ultimately that's the reason this needs to be a death penalty watershed moment, time to refocus football to its proper place in American priorities.

86Cane

I think ultimately that's the reason this needs to be a death penalty watershed moment, time to refocus football to its proper place in American priorities.

Posted by: orange 'n green in the vein | July 13, 2012 at 03:33 PM

There IT is right there.

LB

"We don't be liking what my boi 4-realz sez, but he right. How many 4 and 5 starzzz did the last 5 or 6 NC teams have? More than just about any otha teamz. Chk it out. "

Incorrect. It's not a matter of liking or disliking, I have absolutely no feeling whatsoever. The star system has nothing to do with titles or production, and I've given evidence on this CONTINUALLY.

See coaching. Without a Nick Saban, those recruits would be stuck in the Meinke Car Bowl and you know it. Arthur Brown was all-world with Randy Shannon, and what did he leave at UM?

The star system is media-driven and not an indicator of future success, and I challenge to disprove my previous statements. It will be difficult, since I'm dealing with RAW, FUNCTIONAL data. You have to pay to consume most recruiting services... like cable or a newspaper. It's media. End of discussion. All the press conferences in the world won't change that. Ask Bryce Brown.

And 4-Real STILL hasn't answered my original question. I guess...

"EITHER YOU'RE HATER, OR A CONGRAGULATOR, THERE IS NO N BETWEEN."

...is as close as I'm ever going to get. I don't deal with whims when it comes to the star system. I'm an adult, and I act like it. I don't get emotional when a high schooler commits, is committed but still open, decommits and doesn't come here. There is Miami, and there is everyone else.

And by the way, folks who forget proper punctuation have no right to comment on the same from insiders (Skreetz).

The What

I think ultimately that's the reason this needs to be a death penalty watershed moment, time to refocus football to its proper place in American priorities.

Posted by: orange 'n green in the vein | July 13, 2012 at 03:33 PM

Great post.

The What

I think the death penalty talk for PSU football is picking up.

CaneRock

That whole thing with Freeh yesterday was just another part of the coverup, a straight up SHAM!!!
What the hell did Freeh tell us that we didn't already know. IMO, Freeh was hired by PSU to control the spill, because this thing is more far reaching than what we're led to believe. For example, the mother that got Sandusky to admit He raped her child, unless she got hush money, you mean to tell me that she kept it to herself. And if she told other people, I guarantee you those other people told other people. Best believe half of Happy Valley knew about this, and that my friends is PART of what Freeh was covering up yesterday. IMO, that Paterno statue needs to go down Saddam Hussein style, let that bitch fall.

86Cane

IMO, that Paterno statue needs to go down Saddam Hussein style.

Posted by: CaneRock | July 13, 2012 at 04:10 PM

My wife said the EXACT same thing last night.

Six

The What - I just want what I said

Don't care if it's a 2* kid with a 5* chip on his shoulder/work ethic/football IQ -or- a 5* kid that actually lives up to his rating

Give them all bathsalts for all I care to make them straight monsters out there, like a school of piranha, at least their facemasks on the helmets will make it harder to gnaw on the opponent's faces ... but I miss that Cane attitude from the players


Six

86 - good to see you and Old Skool, have some cervezas and some mexican grub

That burrito put me to sleep later on by the way. Gut bomb ... but damn good

86Cane

Six...U got that right! A good time was had by all. Maybe next time we can meet at someplace futher South? LOL

CaneRock

Arthur Brown was all-world with Randy Shannon, and what did he leave at UM?

Posted by: LB | July 13, 2012 at 03:38 PM

Really!? Now AB was always one of the 1st 2 people down field on KO returns with Sam Shields, but other than that, He never sniffed the field. But that special teams example is exactly why AB SHOULD'VE been on the field, how the hell do you keep that type of size and speed on the bench. But I agree with you, the whole AB situation goes back to COACHING...

CaneRock

Really!? Now AB was always one of the 1st 2 people down field on KO returns with Sam Shields, but other than that, He never sniffed the field. But that special teams example is exactly why AB SHOULD'VE been on the field, how the hell do you keep that type of size and speed on the bench. But I agree with you, the whole AB situation goes back to COACHING...


Posted by: CaneRock | July 13, 2012 at 04:33 PM

And the same thing goes for Spencer Adkins, it's beyond ridiculous how that kid got His chain pulled during the Shannon era.

orange 'n green in the vein

CaneRock, that mother got the grand jury investigation ball rolling, that was the tipping point when she went to the police, thus you have the police monitoring the call. I can see your point about Freeh's report cutting off the perimeter of this to PSU, after all, Second Mile was one of Bush's 1000 points of light, Santorum (whatever you do, don't google that kidz) awarding governmental service distinctions to Second Mile and by extension Sandusky, the disappearing DA declared legally dead after five years, all this circumstantially suggest a lot more guilt higher up the chain of government than just your university hierarchy but with this report now you just have that limited amount of targets to rage against. It's a plausible strategy to attempt to limit the scope of the guilt.

LB

The court of public opinion is what matters most. They're all guilty.

86, your misses is absolutely correct.

CaneRock

It's a plausible strategy to attempt to limit the scope of the guilt.

Posted by: orange 'n green in the vein | July 13, 2012 at 04:42 PM

EXACTAMUNDO! Damn you can write BTW LOL

4-Real

Arthur Brown will be a 1st day draft selection next year. Had he stayed at UM he'd be lucky if he goes 2 the CFL. His brother didn't even take 20 snaps his entire career and still got drafted.

orange 'n green in the vein

4-Real, you're going to have to wrap up the daily recruiting obsession freak out about two or three weeks from today because in August it's time to start worrying about the product on the field this year, not the verbal merry-go-round in high-school off it.

Also you have no idea what AB will do this year or would have done if he had stayed at UM. The Bryce pick by the Eagles has been roundly questioned also so until it pans out for the better, that just shows Reid is a crappy GM.

4-Real

Arthur Brown kicked our ass last year didn't he? U don't know what A. Brown is gonna do this year either but I'm willing 2 bet anything u hope he fails. Last time I checked recruiting was a year round process, not just seasonal. Lb, I CHALLENGE U 2 not only count the stars on the rosters of all the championship teams this decade, but check the salaries of all the championship coaches this decade and see if any of them besides Coker had or have a salary under 2 million. U GET WHAT U PAY 4. I guess giving Antonio Dixon, Greg Cooper & Brandon Washington an opportunity 2 feed their families was also stupid on Andy Reid's behalf huh?

86Cane

$-Real...I mean this in all seriousness: U should REALLY find another team to root for. If U want to be completely miserable ALL of the time that is your choice, but PLEASE do not try to drag us down with U.

If being a Canes fan makes U this miserable that much of the time then U need to cut your losses and just root for the team that has the best recruiting rankings.

For 2013 that is Michigan. GO BLUE!

That is all.

Canezitis

Actually AB is doing quite well w/ KState and is one of the leaders on that D. It's called raw talent getting coached up. What a concept and Shannon couldn't do for whatever reason. Now look at Golden and what he did w/ all those 2 star recruits and Temple and tell me if your not excited about what he can do w/ our current roster and future recruits to come.

Canezitis

Or be a fsu fan and get use being disappointed w/ all that talent

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo
Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 06/2007