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February 01, 2014

Comments

WWIN

Bang Bang!

Dude on a Pale Horse

McGahee!

j.w.

Tres!

SOUP

ME SO TIRED.

Back from Sarasota tonioght after three days of non-stop work.

More to follow tomorrow...

SOUP

CaneRock...I unblocked U after 24 hours for your "Drummond" comment so U can post again.

If you have troubles contact UMike at:

mmarch024@yahoo.com

Or me at:

canespace86@aol.com

We will restore your posting ability.

YooperCane

Good morning spacers!
TV may just be the biggest surprise yet :)

al

Very nice article.. Interesting and eye-opening.

NY Trooper

Good morning Yooper, I hope so. Any inside info on that?

canezilla

GREAT ARTICLE!!! I WOULD ALWAYS TAKE A 3 STAR DADE, BROWARD, PALMBEACH KID OVER A 5 STAR ANYWHERE ELSE.

CGNC

LOL did Canerock get a time out?

Nice article. Interesting to see is that they go through 2011 - which gives the player time to develop for a couple of years and then see how they have panned out after being at their school for a couple of years

Ohio_Cane

CaneRock got a 24 hour timeout? Lol, I must've missed that.

dj moonbat

Although the rate of five-star success is lower than one might predict, in any filtering system, elite prospects are going to get filtered out. I know of one Ivy League law school graduate (not me, fortunately) who failed the CA bar exam at least 3 times.

But how does the washout rate for 5-stars compare to the washout rate for 4-stars?

If it were about the same, we would know that the recruiting services really don't know that much about what separates elite players from very good ones.

If 5-stars actually washed out less than 4-stars, we would know that football just has an incredibly high rate of attrition, and that "can't miss" actually means "will miss three quarters of the time, but that's still better than most."

If 4-stars actually have a LOWER washout rate, we not only know that the recruiting services can't spot "can't miss" elite talent; we know that a five-star rating is negatively correlated with college success.

dj moonbat

Oh, also I have a quibble with the methodology.

A player transferring is treated as a washout. From the point of view of the university that recruited the player, this is obviously true. But it doesn't tell us whether the player 'panned out' in terms of becoming a good player.

Take the kid we all love to hate: Bryce Brown. From Tennessee's standpoint, he was a bust. He did fine at KSU, and he's a reasonably good backup to one of the top 3 running backs in the NFL. Clearly, this is not a case of a talent that didn't go on to bigger and better things. He just didn't do them at Tennessee.

Da U N Houston

Any confirmation on who's on campus?

Ohio_Cane

Treon Harris (QB/ATH), Lamont Gaillard (DT), Lorenzo Featherston (DE, FSU commit who's looking around)

SOUP

CaneRock got a 24 hour timeout? Lol, I must've missed that.

Posted by: Ohio_Cane | February 01, 2014 at 09:27 AM

It was not highly publicized but had to be done. Anyone who makes a comment in support of or defending what "street agents" like Drummond do must face repurcussions for their actions.

It is not necessary nor appropriate to be a contrarian for the sole purpose or arguing any and every point.

SOUP

Posted by: dj moonbat | February 01, 2014 at 09:31 AM

Excellent comment and certainly the necessary next step in this reasearch project.

If I did this for a living I would find out the answers to your perfectly targeted and well framed questions. Unfortunately I have a life, a wife and two full-time jobs so I will have to leave that for the paid professionals.

dj moonbat

Unfortunately I have a life, a wife and two full-time jobs so I will have to leave that for the paid professionals.

Posted by: SOUP | February 01, 2014 at 10:34 AM


Surely you can give up ONE of these prior commitments to solve The Riddle of the Five-Star Recruit? Or just do a really bad job at one of your full-time jobs for a few years...

Ohio_Cane

LOL @ dj

Canesteeler

Good article.

CaneRock

Anyone who makes a comment in support of or defending what "street agents" like Drummond do must face repurcussions for their actions.

Posted by: SOUP | February 01, 2014 at 10:30 AM

Oh yeah?

So when we say that "Al Golden is rebuilding relationships with the local HS coaches",what do you think that means, "Let's have lunch"...LMAO! OK.

"Building relationships", ain't nothin' but code word for..."SEND YOUR STUDS MY WAY!"

So in that type of relationship, who's pimpin who?

I'm through with it, have a nice day SOUP.


Ohio_Cane

CR, U live in Tallahassee?

Terrance Sullivan

Great stuff Soup!

Mannypi

Canerock ur a joke bro.... Coming on here compairing
our HC to a street snake - really.....

dj moonbat

What does "street agent" mean?

DeeCane

What does "street agent" mean?

Posted by: dj moonbat | February 01, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Street Agents are guys who hang around certain high school programs that do have some pull in the community, that get paid to help steer kids to certain schools....for example, I won't say a name but a few years back there was one particular guy who Is really knwn in south Florida, was steering kids away from Miami and sending them to NC State, Tennessee, Florida, FSU..etc, and he was getting paid to do so...its bothersome because they are polluting these young kids minds and making their decisions for them...and it continues today....

DeeCane

Mostly paid by Colleges to do so....

Ohio_Cane

What Dee said

dj moonbat

DeeCane, it sounds like the kids aren't under contract with any one agent, is that right? They're more like freelance recruiters -- working for the school -- than they are like a professional athlete's agent.

Ohio_Cane

They're exactly like drug dealers. Street agents are drug dealers (HS kids), NFL agents are pharmacists.

DeeCane

DeeCane, it sounds like the kids aren't under contract with any one agent, is that right? They're more like freelance recruiters -- working for the school -- than they are like a professional athlete's agent.

Posted by: dj moonbat | February 01, 2014 at 01:06 PM

Correct, its not the kids under contract....its the street guys that have secret pacts with certain programs, and they pay them to help get certain recruits....they usually don't get caught cause there is no paper trail to link it that's why its so big of a problem...

dj moonbat

they usually don't get caught cause there is no paper trail to link it that's why its so big of a problem...

Posted by: DeeCane | February 01, 2014 at 01:16 PM


Obviously, there's a lot of potential for shady deals. But if the street agent isn't taking money from the kids, it's not clear that there's any conflict of interest -- he doesn't represent the kid at all; he's a sales rep for the university, basically. And if the street agent TELLS the kids, "LSU, FSU, and Tennessee pay me to line up recruits for them," there isn't even a problem with failing to disclose who he's working for. (I'm sure that lots of street agents don't do this, but I'll bet that the status of some of these guys is more-or-less in the open.)

So there are certainly circumstances where the business model isn't necessarily violating any laws. It's actually not that different from a company hiring a headhunter, if the street agent tells the kid who his client is.

I assume that the NCAA must have a ban that applies -- surely they don't allow colleges to give money to the high school coach, so it wouldn't make sense to allow them to give money to street agents.

Go Canes

Did I just see a comparison between a lowlife street hustling parasite to coach capable of changing young men's lives forever by offering them a free education to a top 50 university? An education 99% of these young men would never have an opportunity to attain?

Good lord.

SOUP

Or just do a really bad job at one of your full-time jobs for a few years...

Posted by: dj moonbat | February 01, 2014 at 11:00 AM

I am afraid I may already be doing that? LOL

SOUP

I'm through with it, have a nice day SOUP.

Posted by: CaneRock | February 01, 2014 at 11:41 AM

Trust me when I tell U that NOTHING could make me happier than you going BACK to the Miami Herald blog where U came from, where U belong and where U ran to after the 24 hour ban.

Have a nice day!

SOUP

Moonbat....read these articles:

http://www.addictedtoquack.com/2011/3/3/2028702/yahoo-reports-that-oregon-paid-street-agents-athletic-department-says

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/ncaa-has-no-street-cred-over-oregon-sanctions-chip-kelly-sonny-vaccaro-nike-062613

SOUP

Here are a few more:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6179423

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2011-07-07-LSU-willie-lyles_n.htm

One of the biggest challenges going on in college recruiting is the emergence of what are called street agents. A high school coach or a so called longtime friend of the family takes on an advisory/father figure type role in helping to decide where the PSA is going to go to college.

At first glance it doesn't seem like a bad thing to have this type of advisor hanging around especially if you are a single mother trying to raise a family. The relationship usually starts early in junior high school. The street agent spots the talented PSA and develops a relationship with him and his family. Gifts such as athletic equipment, meals, travel, and event tickets are all part of the mentoring/investment in developing the PSA.

Once the recruiting process starts the agent is involved in negotiating which schools the player will go to camp at, unofficially visit, officially visit, and finally commit to. Once again at first glance it doesn't sound like a bad deal for the PSA because he is taking advice and getting support from someone who is familiar with the process, understands that it is a business, and is supposedly looking out for the welfare of the PSA.

In some cases this is all on the level, and the best interests of the PSA, and his family are protected. In many cases though the street agent gets paid every step of the way by individuals associated with the schools the PSA and the agent have interest in. Going rates at some places are rumored to be $3000 for a camp visit. $12,000 for a commitment, and $36,000 or more for the signature on letter of intent day.

Barking Carnival
Paying money for a player to go to your school isn't exactly a new practice. Just for example Hall of Famer Hugh McElhenny once remarked that he took a pay cut when he graduated from the University of Washington and entered the NFL. Bidding wars between schools for players were common back in those days. QB Bobby Cox actually left Washington to transfer to Minnesota because he simply was offered a larger financial package to play there.

SOUP

Safid Deen ‏@Safid_Deen 4m

Well, this is interesting. RT @ZachAbolverdi: JC Jackson just showed up at #UF.

CaneSawMassacre

Ohio looks like JC made it up to UF. Not good

RBLCane

Ohio looks like JC made it up to UF. Not good

Posted by: CaneSawMassacre | February 01, 2014 at 02:19 PM

Supposedly he was decked out in Gators gear too... Not good at all.

CaneSawMassacre

U

RBLCane

They're exactly like drug dealers. Street agents are drug dealers (HS kids), NFL agents are pharmacists.

Posted by: Ohio_Cane | February 01, 2014 at 01:13 PM


That's a pretty extreme comparison... Drug dealers destroy lives on the regular... Street agents are middlemen maneuvering to get a cut of a deal that's probably already going to happen and more often than not doesn't hurt the kid.. That doesn't make them saints but doesn't exactly make them drug dealers either.

GO CANES!!!

trianglecane

Here we go. Smh.

Lurker

JC Jackson is old news

He reaffirmed to the Gators yesterday it was reported already YESTERDAY

SOUP

JC Jackson is old news

Posted by: Lurker | February 01, 2014 at 02:59 PM

Which is why everybody who is anybody on Twitter ALL expressed their complete surprise?

Lurker

It was all over a couple of other recruiting sites YESTERDAY. Confirmed today by the fact he shows up in full gator gear today.

UMike

Jackon was suppose to have and in home visit with Golden today, instead he is in Gainsville. Take him off the list boys.

SOUP

If it was then why is everyone from all the recruiting sites acting all surprised TODAY?

UMike

Scarbough is who reaffirmed yesterday with Bama. After a visit from Saban, he decided to not visit UM

Ohio_Cane

In good news, Whyche is BACK!!

‏@wyche11 2m
I have decided that I am going to do the rest of these classes to satisfy the ACC rule and go to the University of Miami.

Huge!!!!!

UMike

Glad to see the coaches helped Wyche come to his senses

Ohio_Cane


Jackon was suppose to have and in home visit with Golden today, instead he is in Gainsville. Take him off the list boys.

Posted by: UMike | February 01, 2014 at 03:20 PM
-------------------------------------------

Oh no. No no no. He's not off the list until he cancels his in home with Golden.

Lurker

Look it was on a couple of sites yesterday. What do you want me to say. If people whose job it is are surprised that's on them. But it was leaked out yesterday that he reconfirmed with the gators and confirmed it today by his actions. Just because some boob at the Herald is surprised doesn't mean it's not true. That's how it goes sometimes. It's recruiting, stuff like this happens all the time.

dj moonbat

In some cases this is all on the level, and the best interests of the PSA, and his family are protected. In many cases though the street agent gets paid every step of the way by individuals associated with the schools the PSA and the agent have interest in.

Posted by: SOUP | February 01, 2014 at 02:03 PM


This, it seems to me, is the problem. The core business model -- you pay me, I assist you in selling your institution to a talented person whom you would like to recruit -- is not only legal, but not even ethically troubling (to most capitalism adherents). Corporate headhunters do it every day.

The problem is that there appear to be countless, unregulated variations on the core business model, and that schools are basically using street agents to perform actions (like, say, direct payments to players) that the university could never get away with itself.

But it's like many other business practices: -- the problem is the corruption, not the existence of "street agents" per se.

UMike

Ohio.. You can remain mr optimist, but Jackson is a turd lol

Lurker

Getting Wyche back is bigger news. Position of need.

Montreal-Cane


Oh no. No no no. He's not off the list until he cancels his in home with Golden.

Posted by: Ohio_Cane | February 01, 2014 at 03:34 PM

Which i predict will be tomorrow and i also expect Al to take one last shot at TV.

SOUP

Huge!!!!!

Posted by: Ohio_Cane | February 01, 2014 at 03:24 PM

U make it too easy!

Ohio_Cane

There is 2 ways to look at JC's trip to UF. I'll look at the positive one, and clearly, we all know UMike will look at the negative one. Feel free to take him off your list. He's staying ON mine. For now.

Ohio_Cane

3.5 days till guys sign. Plenty of in-homes left to use on big time kids. A la Tracy Howard

VA Cane

Wyche is from VA originally. I remember him. I am pleased he decided to stick with it. He is a good player....we need to keep getting good kids who love UM, use their talent, CONTINUE to work on the fundamentals and make us a better TEAM. Very nice article.

Couple things....as the article shows you can really not put a lot in star system. I think a lot of the people who do it overlook basic skills at times....and I do not know how many of them ever saw the field. It is hard to rate kids...some guys who are no stars make it to the NFL....other 5 stars are flops. I am not a big star guy, you know that....but I guess there has to be a rating system....I just do not buy it since I see a lot of kids and probably know their game better than the rankers....at least for Virginia....not elsewhere

Got a good VA Country Azz Cane story for you. I had a street guy coming around when I was helping at a HS here in Richmond...several of my guys were Jrs and Srs. This guy was hawking and hassling them too much for me. He was prying, trying to get in with their families....and I did not like it. I played a number on the guy and told him I would help him guide a certain OT who will be drafted this spring to a SEC school. I met him after practice at a little restaurant......and when he got in we made some small talk.....and I pulled a .45 and put it on his forehead.....WOW what a redneck hillbilly.....then my buddy who is a FBI guy from back home who is here now pulled up and flashed his piece and badge....the guy was crapping his pants.....we told him we never wanted to see his face around this area ever....my boy went to ACC school.....and we never saw the guy again. Now I know that sounds brutal and dangerous....it was a hatchet job and I would do it again...but I protect my kids from these molesters. I have enough time with my kids and stay with them....so when it comes time to pick and choose....I along with their parents do a lot of the process. I let my kids make their decision....but a good decision for them and family....not for some criminal. I have met some bit timers...even UM....Richard Gordon played for me.....and overall I am very pleased my kids have done well and that our bond is strong enough that player and parents want me assistance. I hate what a lot of this has become....I feel its at times too much for the kids....and I have a lot of single moms who are raising my kids.....I feel the obligation to be involved as so many of my boys look to me as a mentor and father figure.

UMike

Ohio... What is so negative about the obvious? The truth is not negative... You can keep gassing people up like you do about every recruit, but I know enough to not go along lol... Jackson=Turd.

dj moonbat

Ohio... What is so negative about the obvious? The truth is not negative... You can keep gassing people up like you do about every recruit, but I know enough to not go along lol... Jackson=Turd.

Posted by: UMike | February 01, 2014 at 03:55 PM


Probably. There weren't many people who thought Stacy Coley would flip, tho.

Ohio_Cane


Ohio... What is so negative about the obvious? The truth is not negative... You can keep gassing people up like you do about every recruit, but I know enough to not go along lol... Jackson=Turd.

Posted by: UMike | February 01, 2014 at 03:55 PM
----------------------------------

Oh, I'm gassin ppl up now because I won't remove a recruit from the board of possible commits because he's visiting one of his top schools on the last weekend before NSD?

Well, that's good then. That means we can pencil in Treon Harris over FSU, Auburn, etc. Also, Gaillard took a late, unexpected trip to Coral Gables, so he's a Cane. Oh, there's rumors FSU is pushing Lorenzo Featherston out of their class and he's on campus, so he's clearly picking UM on Wednesday.

"Gassin ppl up"... Lol GTFOH

UMike

Coley never flipped.. Lots of people had him going to UM at the end... Myself included. I am feeling better about Treon Harris though

VA Cane

I can tell you there are people who come to VA and my area....they know I have coached some good ones....on my teams, against them but have developed a relationship with them(I love a good player regardless and have some great friendships with kids on other teams and their coaches), and on all star teams. I have been approached more than once with visions of sugarplums dancing in these fools heads...they think $ work.....hell I am trying to keep my home, I could use some $.....but I am a purist as a coach. I want to help my kids do the right thing, but I never say choose X school. We usually get the list down, make a list of the positives and negatives regarding location, travel time, how the family feels, academics, reputation.....then I let it go. I advise my charge pick what is best for what you want to do and where you want to be in life. I have never influenced or said go here. As I am not really qualified, I have never said to a kid choose UM or go to UM. I am biased that way....RG chose UM on his own; he did well.

VA Cane

I have to give AG lots of credit....I think he is honest in trying to recruit kids, and he does not bash other schools. I really think he does a nice job as does the staff.....now lets just coach as aggressive as we recruit guys....JMO

Lurker

Why would someone go to the trouble of making a five hour drive on a Saturday to Gainesville if it wasn't a serious trip? If you were already convinced in your mind you were coming to Miami, why do that and do it all dressed up in gator gear. Mike isn't being negative, that's just realistic. Maybe Golden can talk him out if it, but right now it's about 90% just based on his actions yesterday and today.

Ohio_Cane

VA, if I had a son, I would want him coached by U. IJS

Not because of your knowledge alone, but because you're clearly a straight up guy who cares about his players no matter what. Reminds me of myself and the girls I coach in soccer.

UMike

Ohio... Do me a favor and dont go with the fake tough guy "gtfoh" comment....yes you gas people up.. You think every recruit is coming and even the most far fetched recruits you will say "we have a shot". Just look at your track record lol.. Keep doing ur thing though, im sure theres a few people left on the blog that will still believe u lol

Ohio_Cane

Lurker, I'm not sitting here arguing there isn't a chance JC goes to UF. Not even a little. From what I've heard, he's legitimately torn on which place to go. I'm saying just because he took a visit to a school in his top 2 and is already committed to doesn't mean UM should "take him off the board" because "he's gone".

UMike

Ohio.. When did I say "UM" should take him of the board? Im saying WE should take him off our lists

Ohio_Cane

Fake tough guy? Lol sure. Not acting tough at all.

Feel free to look at my predictions and see how I "think everyone is coming". Think I picked 5 out of 13 guys. Nice try tho.

Ohio_Cane

Aren't they one in the same? UM's targets and our predictions list? Remind me how they're different.

SOUP

UMike trying to make up for CaneRock being gone? LOL

VA Cane

Thanks OC I think we feel the same way. I want the very best for my kids....I love them all. I try to guide them in the game....but advise and guide them in life. I have strong continuing relationships with my kids way beyond when thy play for me HS, college....and I never want anything from them....just to excel in life as much as possible. Jason Snelling played a year for me....and I know his family...if I wanted tickets to games I could get them.....but that's not my thing. I am proud to have coached him and see him doing well.

Ohio_Cane

Feel free to keep attacking my predictions tho. It's all good. But please don't try to act like your a genius at this. U go with the majority, I go with my gut and what I read.

Track record tho? I had one bad year. Let it go. If I do the same this year, I promise I'll stop.

UMike

No, my prediction list would only include players we have a legit chance on. No Scarbough, Dupre, Bryant and now Jackson. So are you saying you didnt have Collins, Kirkland, R Robinson, M Thomas, Bryant, Sony, Cooketc all coming to Miami? You even listed all the reasons Cook was coming haha.. You said we had a chance with Fourentte which us laughable lol

UMike

I go with the majority? Haha good one.. How much shyt did I get when I said Sony was going to UGA? Plenty of people on here didnt think that...

SOUP I not being negative at all, im just not some homer whos "gut" tells him we get every player lol

UMike

I still think we have a great class even if we dont add another player... Especially if Wyche gets in later and sticks it out.

Lurker

Ohio, it was not a planned trip. While it was reported yesterday he had reconfirmed to the turds, the trip to UF caught everyone by surprise, it wasn't planned. Yesterday plus today adds up to him most likely going to UF. Like I said before, why drive five hours to Gainesville, to tell them go €€€€ yourselves? It's just common sense. Also I think Mikes messing with you, I don't believe you picked Fournette, nobody's that delusional.

Ohio_Cane

U didn't have Sony going to UGA until there was an article about UGA being #1. That's majority.

Yes, I listed a bunch of reasons why Cook would choose UM. What's your point? U telling me those reasons weren't real and I made them up?

Fournette? I said we had a chance because he was reportedly going to visit UM. Once he didn't, there was no chance. Again, what's your point?

Scarbrough, Dupre and Bryant were all on that list for months. They wouldn't be on the final one. Again, nice try at attacking me.

Go Canes

@Manny_Navarro: My story: Dade, Broward coaches say Canes doing good job recruiting backyard (longer version of Sunday story) http://t.co/kUTOZ3DLtp

UMike

Ohio... No one is "attacking" you lol... If I always went with the "majority" then everyone would always say Im being negative when I make that pick lol.. So now I choose Sony after reading am article? So now you know what I read and when I read it? U just keep doing u thing bro... Good work

UMike

Lurker, no he didnt pick Fournette... But when there was talk he might visit I said there was no way we get him and if course Ohio came back with us "having a good shot" lol... Some people dont see reality lol

Ohio_Cane

Never said we had a good shot. I said we have a chance. Get it right if you're going to try and quote me. Go back in the history if U care enough and find the post.

UMike

Ohio.. Saying we have a good shot or chance etc is still not being realistic. There was no way in hell that kid was coming here lol

Ohio_Cane

Anyone who visits and has an offer has a chance to commit to UM. Even if the majority call it a "free trip"

Ohio_Cane

I remember U saying there was no chance TH3 was coming either until it was reported that Golden's in-home might have swayed him.

Go Canes

Don't know what's really going on here but I do notice again that anyone with positive thoughts, hunches or outlook about something here is once again tagged a homer by UMIke.

Go Canes

@Manny_Navarro: Ice Harris told me #Canes coach Michael Barrow was usually first one at his door each morning colleges were allowed to visit high schools

UMike

I NEVER said there was no chance Howard would come... Get ur stuff right big homie. Why dont you just ask your "insider" who were gonna get haha... Im done with this convo...

Ohio_Cane

Btw, Sony committed to UGA like 6-8 months ago. Please don't act like U called that one before the article came out that he was favoring them. Even UGA insiders didn't know he was spurning UM.

UMike

Go Canes.. And I am tagged a negative nancy for being realistic... Such is life in canespace land lol... Btw ive only called 2 maybe 3 people homers.. So get it right lol

UMike

Sorry Ohio.. U say something? Lol

Ohio_Cane

Childish AND negative? That's news.

UMike

Still talking I see

WWIN

Hey everybody just settle down! Both of you have the same agent, so it's all good!

UMike

Lol WWIM

SOUP

I hate recruiting season.

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